[CS1-CSE] Litchi General Discussion

[Kujikawa]

I'm more of a

CH 6B[m] > dash > 5B[m] > 2C[m] > 4D > 5D > IAD > jC > Land > 6D > ...

kinda' guy, but thats mostly because I'm not really much of a Litchi Main and don't have a full set of optimal combos.

Like ItsuuC Starter for example.

[EXonestar]

The only combo midscreen combo I have off 6B[m] is 5B[m] > 2C[m] > 4D, unless 4D hits corner.

You gotta' finger fetish or something?

LK, in the improvement thread you mentioned Burst Safe combo parts. Call me stupid or whatever, but what do you generally do with Litchi for burst safe stuff?

last time i saw some sort of burst safe , it was an opponent bouncing on the staff(1) and staff(2) after pressing D when its set to 2D (people burst and u can block b4 ur staff returns to u)

but im open to hear any new or other ones o-o , cus i like baiting bursts :3 *ching!*

[TD]

6c(1) 4kote is burst safe in any part of the combo.

[Kujikawa]

last time i saw some sort of burst safe , it was an opponent bouncing on the staff(1) and staff(2) after pressing D when its set to 2D (people burst and u can block b4 ur staff returns to u)

but im open to hear any new or other ones o-o , cus i like baiting bursts :3 *ching!*

Yeah I know you can do something like that off a [D] > throw > ]D[ > Barrier > ... , or something along those lines.

But the throw doesn't allow them to burst anyway...

[EXonestar]

Yeah I know you can do something like that off a [D] > throw > ]D[ > Barrier > ... , or something along those lines.

But the throw doesn't allow them to burst anyway...

the staff(1 , 2) is the burst bait o.o after the throw.

[TD]

a smart player would just burst after 6d(1) during that throw combo. reasoning: for litchi to bait that she would need to do a strong read of sorts by using something like 5b or rcing. the problem with 5b is that although its jcable, the foe might not burst, or you'd be adding unnecessary proration to the combo. with rc, same problem, foe might not burst (you can do 6d(1) rc 6d... but then you still run into the same problem. and you possibly wasted 50 heat). for her throw combos you're better off just eating the burst unless you have some good ass yomi.

[EXonestar]

a smart player would just burst after 6d(1) during that throw combo. reasoning: for litchi to bait that she would need to do a strong read of sorts by using something like 5b or rcing. the problem with 5b is that although its jcable, the foe might not burst, or you'd be adding unnecessary proration to the combo. with rc, same problem, foe might not burst (you can do 6d(1) rc 6d... but then you still run into the same problem. and you possibly wasted 50 heat). for her throw combos you're better off just eating the burst unless you have some good ass yomi.

personaly , and its one of my bad habits, i tend to RC wen i reset a combo and i assume they'll burst ( 50/50 sometimes it works nicely) and bait them after i do 6D First hit

Like you sed , a large majority of opponents burst after 6D (someties burst b4 it even Confirms) but if it does , after the first hit of 6D

[deadsnake]

explored the combo part

you need to be point blank, like i said before

5b > 2c > 5d > slide 5a works on: ragna, jin, noel, lambda, mu, tsubaki, bang, relius

2a > 2c > 5d > slide 5a works on everyone but plat. it's really, really hard vs tao, somewhat difficult vs rachel, pretty easy vs everyone else. the opponent needs to be crouching for it to work.

in hakumen/tagers case, 5a > 2c > 5d > slide 5a works, again, only if they are crouching.

chaoto also told me yesterday he was coming up with new stuff too... looking forward to it.

5b 2c 5d slide 5a is already really hard on ragna orz

1 out of 30 attemps :v

I should be buffering the dash on 5d right? but still....

[EXonestar]

5b 2c 5d slide 5a is already really hard on ragna orz

1 out of 30 attemps :v

I should be buffering the dash on 5d right? but still....

2 out of over 100 tries........ bufferings a bitch >.>

(no offence to anyone who likes buffering o_o)

[deadsnake]

and nao it's still 1 out of maybe more than 60 attempts

somehow I don't get it, is it my monitor? monitor does have some delays, eye confirming is so mehh.... orz

[Kujikawa]

I seem to get it okay. Personally, CS2 Litchi's Chun > Dash > 5B was harder lol.

On the burst topic, I seem to get a lot of people bursting after a ItsuuB or C midscreen or corner. Most of them Lambda players however.

[TD]

6c(1) 4kote is burst safe in any part of the combo.

remember this if theyre bursting at this particular point (many people still do). when you do 4 kote, hold 4 and you'll ib the burst.

[Star-Demon]

How do you guys find time and space to 6B?

[Mightfo]

How do you guys find time and space to 6B?

that's actually a decent non-combo question! it kind of depends on the matchup though....

generally if you're good at anti airing/air to airing them they dont want to just airdash mindlessly but dont want to rush in and get nailed by 5b or 6d or something once you've made them wary of those so..if you can anti air them decently enough to where theyve got a bit of caution, that creates the time and gives you more situations where 6b is pretty nicely spaced.(like during ground footsies or when you can make them fall on a 6b[m] after they've double jumped away) but it is easier to find situations like that for some characters than others. i dont really find myself 6b[m]ing against bang but i havent played against bang much since like..cs1, sooo.

i feel like i could have answered/articulated this better but whatever, its a start. non combo/pressure discussion!

Edited May 24, 2012 by Mightfo

[TD]

if you keep seeing the foe autopilot a long and/or highly punishable move on the ground, note exactly when they like to do it (soon after landing on the ground, backdashing etc...) and next time, 6b their face. sometimes it takes awhile to know exactly when to do it, so pay really close attention to opportunities.

sometimes (read:very rarely and sparingly) you can randomly 6b and it'll stuff an approach/twich (like ragna trying to 5b or lambda trying to jump out).

lastly, if you outrange the character (rachel), throw it out often near them to discourage their options

[Mightfo]

it is also easier to "just throw out" against characters who cant crouch it past the leg, like haku/tager (although haku's 623a makes this risky) in case you werent aware of that~

[Nakkiel]

(you can do 6d(1) rc 6d... but then you still run into the same problem. and you possibly wasted 50 heat). .

This requires zero yomi and no risk. If you have 50 heat and someone bursts your 6D they're absolutely screwed. It's incredibly easy to actually react to the burst because 6D is a level 5 move, just react to them being stuck in the burst animation and RC, press 6D again and do 5k.

[Lord Knight]

The only combo midscreen combo I have off 6B[m] is 5B[m] > 2C[m] > 4D, unless 4D hits corner.

LK, in the improvement thread you mentioned Burst Safe combo parts. Call me stupid or whatever, but what do you generally do with Litchi for burst safe stuff?

there's not much burst safe stuff this time, you can RC stuff if you have meter, and 6c(1) > 4kote is burst safe. also when you do A moves or jump in's/iad's during combos, you should be holding back as well

you should be able to hit the corner no matter what when you hit a 6b[m] ch.... between 6b > dash 5b > 2c > delay 6d(1) > dash 5c > etc, 6b > dash 5b > 2c > 4d, and 6b > 2c > 4d, you should always be able to hit the wall

LK any advice to improve my Litchi?

you rely on placing the staff too much imo

and nao it's still 1 out of maybe more than 60 attempts

somehow I don't get it, is it my monitor? monitor does have some delays, eye confirming is so mehh.... orz

it's prob your monitor, i get it about 8/10 times

How do you guys find time and space to 6B?

depends on matchup, player and situation

[AUREDO]

I found the max damage from 6d barrier crush ,4561 k 66 mt

barrie crush<44<4wind<447<tkchun<6d<tk<hatsu<haku<chun<<haku<hatsu<reacha<ippatsua<ippatsub<d<hitstaf<chun<hitstaff<6d<5b<6c1<kothe 4<ariael ender

[Lord Knight]

cool

its a bit awkward

[Star-Demon]

[Star-Demon]

I learned something new! I don't know if I can use it in match yet but I've seen it enough that I thought it'd be good to learn! :D

[Kujikawa]

Is that the first time that's happened to you, lol?

[Star-Demon]

not really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfWmi3ZZfKg

[Lord Knight]

quick review (or i guess update?) on my thoughts on litchi

pros - fast ground speed, good air normals, versatile, great corner carry, scrubby guard point move, great mixup, great backstep

cons - low to medium damage at best, needs CH's to get rewarded for hitting people with the staff, no single go to anti air

litchi vs -

valk - even, momentum based match, if you get knocked down without the stick youre in trouble, air chun beats wolf 5b and beast cannon and 5d set 4 winds is good

tao - 6-4 in tao's favor, not that bad as far as tools go but she does more damage off random hits than you do. also she can combo you off her overhead, and AB2 does too much damage

ragna - even or maybe 5.5 for him, as long as you keep momentum you can win, he cant do much about itsuu besides run really deep in your face or jumping with barrier, he does really good random damage

hakumen - even, he can kill you in 2-3 combos and has ridiculous corner carry, but you do too. in neutral youre even, good use of itsuu, 6b, 5b aa, and 3c will keep him on his toes, your 6a hits him crouching and you have a bunch of mixup tools that you can use to stay in on him

mu - 5.5 in mu's favor, she's fast and you cant really use itsuu too much cause 2b is her favorite poke, although you do all right in poke wars. if you can keep momentum, you can win. you cant safe jump vs her because of her dp having a guard point

arakune - maybe 6-4, obnoxious char, gotta go out of your way to beat backsteps/gold bursts on wakeup, movement is godly, get cursed and you lose. its a battle of attrition.

lambda - even, you just need patience and you have to identify their way of moving quickly. she cant do shit about kokushi. if you read wake up goryus do meaty throw or just block

bang - 5.5 in his favor, although you have the tools to win he outdamages you on average and can get FRKZ really easily, since your damage is down from last game, it's almost definitely gg if he gets it. discourage wakeup 6d with meaty 6a. you gotta use different setups to use kokushi. litchi is one of the best at beating ashura

carl - 5.5 in his favor, really, REALLY impossible match if you dont know what youre doing/dont have a lot of exp. you have to turtle him, you cant let yourself get touched, avoid fork at all costs (either by hitting the sister or just running away). litchi has multiple tools to keep carl out and he has low life, so its ok that your damage is meh

haz - even, the longer you take to beat him the harder it is, technically this would be in litchi's favor but jayoku factor is too strong to ignore

rachel - even for the first time ever, or maybe slightly in her favor, despite a lot of stuff requiring resources she still outdamages you midscreen and can corner carry of more normal hits than you can. if she doesnt have any items out, its tough for her to do stuff, you need a lot of exp vs her so you can identify whats the best way to hit her/prevent her from summoning quickly and moving in on you

tager - 6-4 for litchi, he cant do shit to litchi really until he touches her, between good use of 6b, 5b and 2c aa, 3c, and itsuu he cant really approach, you have meterless instant overheads on him and when he blocks kokushi he has to deal with rising jC instead of 6a

jin - 6-4 for litchi, more because he lost some tools rather than litchi gaining anything. he gets more reward than you off normal hits but its easier for you to hit him/catch him with ch. cant use kokushi after he gets 50 meter but you have a ton of other tools to use for mixup instead

noel - 5.5 for litchi, both chars damage output got nerfed overall, litchi can deal with 2d, 4d and CA pretty well. cant really use kokushi after she gets 50 meter, and noel's random factor is always there to worry about. its really hard to use itsuu in neutral vs her

relius - 6-4 for litchi, litchi is good at dealing with the wife, and he has to deal with jC/3c during kokushi, as long as you dont fall into his frolicky pace you win

tsubaki - 6-4 or 5.5 for litchi, tsubaki took some nerfs plus you got some good stuff, use 6b to discourage charge, guard point the dives so she doesnt get pushed back out of range. shield charge is less obnoxious this game too.

makoto - 6-4 for litchi, makoto with no big damage + corner carry means you pretty much never have to worry about getting hit midscreen, she has to carefully time a 5b to stand a chance at beating your staffless 2b, this is probably litchi's best match by far

plat - 5.5 for litchi, your midscreen dmg is overall higher than hers, so you can win just with off numbers. stay out of the corner, her pressure is super scary. plats 6b > dash 5a link is extra hard on litchi so thats another small plus. use 5b[m] aa to beat jC. kind of an annoying match despite it being in litchi's favor

Edited May 29, 2012 by Lord Knight