[CT] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[Alternate275]

I know I already mentioned it, but I can't give it enough credit:

41236BD is such a great move I can't talk about it enough.

If Nirvana is directly behind you and you do this move, you go on the other side of your opponent and simultaneously Nirvana will do her drill arm. This effectively sandwiches your opponent, which can lead to some great combos.

Also, just about every C ground attack (3C, 6C, 623C) sets up great for Carl's super (632146C). His super is where the real damage is at too, because you can still control Nirvana in the middle of Carl's 20 hit super (God I love that drill arm >.<). Even if you whiff, you can surprise attack your opponent into thinking that you're defenseless while you 63214C command grab him (and effectively toss him straight to you). I catch players with Nirvana's command grab from off screen so often it's ridiculous.

Wait. The command grab is Nirvana's right?

[Id_asz]

Wait. The command grab is Nirvana's right?

Yes, 63214D from Carl's perspective.

Looks like I accidently put down C and not D in that post >.<

[Id_asz]

I'll try and get a decent sized update here tomorrow.

[fubarduck]

OK, would like to share some stuff I picked up from the Carl thread on the Livedoor J-BBS, and implemented into my game:

http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/bbs/read.cgi/game/45148/1217858329/l50

First of all, Carl has a pretty damaging loop with Nirvana. The loop is simply 2C, 8D. You can loop it 3 times if spaced correctly, after which you can go for an air throw or just let them fall and go for okizeme.

The easiest way to set it up is off a throw. You do forward throw+22D (basically do 22D right after you hit throw) and then cancel the throw into 236A. Next dash towards, then do 2B, 2C (8D). The Nirvana clap (8D) should hit only one time, and they get sent back towards Carl unable to tech out, so you 2C/8D a couple more times.

So, basically the combo looks like:

Throw (22D), 236A, dash, 2B, [2C (8D)] x 3

If you do a reverse throw, you can still do it a little differently:

Back throw (22D), 236A (move Nirvana slightly towards you while doing this), [2C (8D)] x 3

If you screw up the Nirvana teleport after the throw, or throw them while Nirvana is doing a move or recovering, you can do this Carl-only combo:

Throw (22D), 236A, dash, 2B, 2C, 236A, Vertical high jump B, double jump B, C.

Reverse throw (22D), 236A, 2C, 236A, 5C, jump B, double jump B, C.

I believe you can also start this with an air throw by doing 22D immediately afterwards, then going straight into 2C when you land.

Notes-

- If 8D ever hits twice, you timed it wrong. They can tech out of the air if it hits twice.

- After the 3rd repetition, you can relaunch with 2C but they'll be able to air tech almost immediately afterwards. Better to let them fall and go for okizeme.

- You have do to 2C a little earlier than you would think while doing the loop, startup on this move is a little slow. Once you get the timing, you'll get it every time though.

Another simple loop somebody posted is:

[5B, 5C (6D), j.C] x 3, 2B, 2C (knocks down, they get knocked up but can't tech).

Will post as more stuff comes to fruition.

[Id_asz]

Awesome, thanks for the info. There's an easy loop I'm going to try out today also.

From what I saw it looks like:

6D, [3S, 6A, 6B, 5C (6D)] repeat

Also, every normal of Nirvana's does something specific that I want to look at. So I'm going to let you know what I come up with.

EDIT: I almost forgot, today's Thanksgiving! That means fewer people will be at the arcade! If I think I can get enough practice down for one day I might do some cool stuff that I'm curious about but that won't help my game (*cough* Astral Finish *cough*).

[||||||]

[stuff that connects into super]

2A,2B, 3C, 632146C

Throw, 632146C

Nirvana 4D, 632146C

[Nirvana behind Carl]

2A,2B,3C, 236A, 2A , 5B(Nirvana 41236D), J.A, jc, J.B, 214C

[Nirvana away from Carl]

2A,2B,3C, 2A, 5B, J.A, J.B, Air throw (22D), land, 632146C , 236D

[Id_asz]

[stuff that connects into super]

2A,2B, 3C, 632146C

Throw, 632146C

Nirvana 4D, 632146C

[Nirvana behind Carl]

2A,2B,3C, 236A, 2B , 5B(Nirvana 236D), J.A, jc, J.B, 214C

[Nirvana away from Carl]

2A,2B,3C, 2B, 5B, J.A, J.B, Air throw (22D), land, 632146C , 236D

236D? do you mean 41236D or 623D?

It seems like Carl's forte are his loops. There's different loops for different situations. However, they take lots of practice >.<. I'm having trouble getting them in when the other player is trying to kill me like crazy. I'm losing a bunch of matches on purpose because all I'm trying to do the whole match is start a loop so I can practice it. It's pretty discouraging.

[Zeero]

so BB arrived at my arcade last night, so im going to have fun trying Carl tonight

i'll see if i find anything useful

[||||||]

236D? do you mean 41236D or 623D?

236D

[Alternate275]

Awesome job working on the combos =D

Question... Carl have any overheads? =o

so BB arrived at my arcade last night, so im going to have fun trying Carl tonight

i'll see if i find anything useful

Wait. There are locations that are still getting the BB Cabinet... MAYBE THERE'S HOPE FOR ME YET!!!

[Zeero]

except im in canada

according to japanese wiki, 2D is overhead and 3D hits low. just saw it

[fubarduck]

236D

236D is not a move. You're either doing 2D, 3D or 6D. That, or you're doing 41236D.

[PhaethonH]

(snip)

Another thing has been brought to my attention. Can you build meter by whiffing normals? And if not, can the opponent build meter by attacking that robotic assist?

No, no meter-buildup by whiffing.

No, no meter-buildup by raping the robot -- I specifically tried this against the computer, all I did was waste my time and opportunity (however, attacking Nirvana reduces her gauge bar, if you're more concerned about orphaning Carl).

EDIT: as a random aside, Carl's "puppeteering" animation (e.g. isolated 6D) can be FDC'd. Although what I was trying was GG's one-frame jump, so I don't know if it really was a jump cancel or a barrier cancel. But his little finger pointing thing didn't finish.

[NeoUmbra]

except im in canada

according to japanese wiki, 2D is overhead and 3D hits low. just saw it

Hmm, really? Wouldn't that mean really easy unblockables. (Dont know much about Carl yet so correct me if im wrong).

[Id_asz]

Hmm, really? Wouldn't that mean really easy unblockables. (Dont know much about Carl yet so correct me if im wrong).

He's correct. 2D hits high. However, most players know to STAY AWAY FROM THE DOLL! Still, if I see thm next to Nirvana blocking low, I'll use it.

[Zeero]

So i finally played carl last night

and damn hes hard to use.

even people who are playing BB for the first time knows better than to get near me when i'm with nirvana, its not rocket science to run away from a big thing coming at you.

everybody just runs and shoot projectiles its disgusting. if you push nirvana closer, they airdash to the other side and resume.

Throwing does a lot of damage in this game because theres no proration on it... and i realized because Carl does little hops instead of running, its hard to successfully throw people into that 2c 8d loop... any suggestions?

I also find that its hard to gain meter for carl... maybe coz im always trying to be with my doll so im not hitting much but i have no move from far away to use to gain meter. gay.

Biggest problem i find is that Carl's block string (without nivana) is pretty useless, he has no overhead like everyone else and he can't even link 2a to 2a and a lot of his attacks dont link/pushes too far away. Sometimes you're just alone with Carl because they k eep running away even if you finally get in your block string sucks... and 3C is punishable on block i think... god damn.

In a sense, you can do unblockables with 2d + low attacks... but 2d comes out REALLY slow. i tried doing something like this

2a 2b 3c 22d 236A 2a 2b 3c (while mashing 2d in there because no sure of recovery). Basically all 3 hits will finish hitting before 2d even starts up. I'll try to do 22d earlier next time.

[Id_asz]

So i finally played carl last night

and damn hes hard to use.

even people who are playing BB for the first time knows better than to get near me when i'm with nirvana, its not rocket science to run away from a big thing coming at you.

everybody just runs and shoot projectiles its disgusting. if you push nirvana closer, they airdash to the other side and resume.

Throwing does a lot of damage in this game because theres no proration on it... and i realized because Carl does little hops instead of running, its hard to successfully throw people into that 2c 8d loop... any suggestions?

I also find that its hard to gain meter for carl... maybe coz im always trying to be with my doll so im not hitting much but i have no move from far away to use to gain meter. gay.

Typically when I play, I don't try and get the opponent into loops. If they get into the position for it I'll use it. So whenever I end up getting into a position to throw I'll work on setting up the 2C, 8D loop. The key for getting Heat Gauge while attacking with Nirvana is to know your combos with Carl solo. It takes a lot of practice, but try and get Nirvana moving or teleporting while you're in the middle of a combo. In the guide I'm making for Carl I call this "Combo-porting". Also, a great strategy is the "Double Input" where you do two inputs (one for Carl and one for NIrvana) simultaneously.

At the end of combos I'd recommend throwing since it doesn't scale down. And at the the end of a combo, it's pretty easy to tech out of a throw, which could be its difficulty. if they press BC twice it won't work, and if there's a long window to tech they're more prone to pressing it twice. "It didn't work! I haven't escaped yet! I'll hit it again."

[magz]

Sometimes you're just alone with Carl because they k eep running away even if you finally get in your block string sucks... and 3C is punishable on block i think... god damn.

While it is punishable on block you have some options to not be completely raped. Since you can special cancel it on block with 623C (another low >_>) or 236A/B (seems to only have above foot/knee invulnerability). I couldn't get it to work yesterday, but couldn't you also cancel into the gear overdrive? If not, just a simple RC + fd jump should keep you safe if you have meter.

Some stuff from the blazblue wiki (that should be in the first post):

Height: 144cm

Weight: 35kg

Blood Type: AB

Birthplace: Austria

Birthday: May 5

Hobbies: Violin, Chess

Important Things: Older Sister (The Doll...)

Dislikes: Lies

236A/B: Moves you forward, can pass through opponent. [Would seem to have above foot/knee invulnerability.]

623C: Reaches 3 character lengths. Enemy is launched toward you. [is air techable if you don't act on it, IIRC]

Air 214C: 3 way attack in front of Carl. Aerial momentum disappears.

4D: While rotating does 2 attacks. 2nd attack knocks enemy back and causes wall bounce. Has super armor.

63214D: [can be used during gear super to throw enemy while in block stun. can be tech thrown though.]

236236D: Attacks opponent while moving forward a little. [Range is somewhat short. If they block it you should try your best to cross them up and hit them with high/low mixup.]

214214D: Anti-air attack. Short reach. Slow startup. Not very strong.

Gattlings (Ground):

①2A>A

②(2AorA)>6A

③(2AorA)>B>6B

④(2AorA)>6B

⑤(2AorA)>2B>6B

⑥(2AorA)>2B>2C

⑦(2AorA)>C>3C

⑧(2AorA)>2C

⑨(2AorA)>3C

⑩2A>6C

Gattlings (Air):

①JA>JA

②JA>JB>JC

③JA>J2C

Lastly:

[Nirvana away from Carl]

2A,2B,3C, 2B, 5B, J.A, J.B, Air throw (22D), land, 632146C , 236D

2B 5B does not seem to work in an otg string. Can anyone confirm this? 2a 5b works but they get launched too high for j.A j.B air throw... Also, isn't this air throw techable pretty easily?

[Zeero]

While it is punishable on block you have some options to not be completely raped. Since you can special cancel it on block with 623C (another low >_>) or 236A/B (seems to only have above foot/knee invulnerability). I couldn't get it to work yesterday, but couldn't you also cancel into the gear overdrive? If not, just a simple RC + fd jump should keep you safe if you have meter.

i tried cancelling into 236A/B, but the result is the same because people will probably be using 2A to start their combo to punish my 3C and i just roll right into it.

Also tried 623C, but on block its pretty unsafe as well... really makes no difference.

gear overdrive and RC works... but using 50% tension just so you can be safe for doing a block string isnt the best feeling in the world.

i have a game question in general... what moves can you actually jump cancel from? only certain moves that land? not like GG?

[Alternate275]

Addressing the 2D overhead... From what I understand from reading just now, it has incredible windup on the animation before the hitbox actually becomes active.

That's fine, but does it become a viable thing to try to do on wakeup? Or do the wakeup options make that a difficult thing to do?

[magz]

i tried cancelling into 236A/B, but the result is the same because people will probably be using 2A to start their combo to punish my 3C and i just roll right into it.

Also tried 623C, but on block its pretty unsafe as well... really makes no difference.

gear overdrive and RC works... but using 50% tension just so you can be safe for doing a block string isnt the best feeling in the world.

i have a game question in general... what moves can you actually jump cancel from? only certain moves that land? not like GG?

I never said 623C was safe, but it can beat out punishment attempts if they think you're going for 236a/b. Your best bet to avoid blocked 3C completely and to properly hit confirm into it when possible.

I don't know much about what can be jump canceled. Only that 3C is JCable on hit but not block =\ Man... Eddie's 2d really got nerfed, eh?

@Alternate275: Assuming 3C knockdown, if nirvana is directly behind you (otherwise do 22d directly after 3C to get the doll near you), you can set her to do an attack on wakeup . 3D will punish forward techs. 6D or perhaps even 41236D can punish neutral/back tech? JC IAD forward/back can also punish back/forward teching. I'm going to work on that a little more today because that seems to be the safest way to keep pressure on your opponent.

2D on wakeup is a little hard to pull off considering the tech options available. Maybe for a late neutral tech?

Edit: From the J-BBS fubarduck posted - 2A+D>5A>5B>6B seems to lead into an unblockable setup using 2D. However, the positioning of the doll is somewhat problematic.

A combo list someone posted:

5B>5C>623C>5B>JB>JBC>623D(2419)

6B(CH)>5B>JB>JBC>623D(2383)

6A>JB>JBC>623D(not measurable)

Forward Throw>632146C(2743)

Forward Throw>5C>JB>JBC>623D(2596)

Forward Throw>5C>41236D>JB>JBC(2947)

Forward Throw>236A>2B>[2C>8D](Hit dependant) [will most likely need to use 22d in this and the following one]

Back Throw>236A>[2C>8D]（See Above）

[2A>5A>5B>5C>6D]>3C>2B>[2C>8D](See Above)

5B>5C>236236D>5C*N>5B>JB>JBC（not measurable）

236236D>632146C（screen madness）

[Alternate275]

Wait? You can punish wakeup techs? Like, there's a vulnerability window for just waking up?

[magz]

Wait? You can punish wakeup techs? Like, there's a vulnerability window for just waking up?

I sure would hope so. Otherwise, they weren't blocking and I have been doing all this work for nothing?!

[Alternate275]

I sure would hope so. Otherwise, they weren't blocking and I have been doing all this work for nothing?!

Well we'll find out sooner or later =P

[Mike Z]

There is vulnerability at the start/middle of fwd and back wakeup techs. Neutral wakeup techs are invincible until you land, just like floor bounce techs.