[CS1] Iron Tager Instant Block 360/720 Guide

[Heroic_Legacy]

Instant Blocking cuts down on guardstun by 5 frames on the ground and 10 frames in the air, and what happens when you can Instant Block?

You punish the unpunishable.

I've compiled a list of EVERY NORMAL GATLING in the game, and what is IB punishable and what isn't. Feel free to up your game!

Ragna the Bloodedge

Note: Didn't attempt 360B punishes with Ragna.

IB 360A

5A 5B

5A 2A

5A 5C

5A 3C

2A 2B

2A 5B

2A 5C

2A 3C

2A 2C

2B 5C

2B 2C

2B 3C

5B 5D

2C 6C

5C 5D

2C 5D

5D (1) 5D (Yes that's right, IB the first part of 5D and 360A is free)

IB 720C

5B 5C

5B 2C (Careful...)

5B 6A

5B 3C

5C 2C (Careful...)

6B 5C

6B 2C (Careful...)

6B 3C

Jin Kisaragi

IB 360A

5A 2A

5A 5B

5A 5C (360B)

5A 6A (360B)

2A 6A (360B)

2A 5C (360B)

5C 2C (360B)

5C 6C (360B)

2C 6C (360B)

5C 5D (360B)

5C 2D (360B)

5C 6D (360B)

6C 2D (360B)

6C 6D (360B)

IB 720C

5A 5A

2A 2A

2A 2B

2A 5B

5B (1) 5C

5B (2) 5C

5B (1) 2B

5B (2) 2B

5B (1) 3C

5B (2) 3C

2B 5C

2B 3C

Noel Vermillion

Note: Didn't do Drive moves yet.

IB 360A

5A 2A

5A 6A

5A 6B (360B)

5A 5B

5A 5C

2A 2A

2A 5B

2A 2B

2A 6B (360B)

2A 5C

2B 2B

2B 5C

2B 2C

6B 3C (360B)

5C 2C

2C 3C (360B)

IB 720C

5A 2B

5A 6C

5B 5C

2B 6C

6C (1) 2C

Rachel Alucard

Note: 2C and 6C not included. 2C (Cat Chair) is not a move put in strings ever. 6C is float so you can't 360/720 it.

IB 360A

5A 2A

5A 6A (360B)

5A 5B

5A 2B (360B)

5A 6B (360B)

5A 4B (360B)

5A 5C (360B)

2A 2A

2A 6A (360B)

2A 5B

2A 2B (360B)

2A 6B (360B)

2A 4B (360B)

5B 6B

5B 4B (360B)

5B 5C (360B)

IB 720C

2A 5A

5B 6A

2B 5B

Taokaka

Note: 6B is airborne, cannot be 360/720. Drive moves are untestable

IB 360A

5A 5A

5A 6A (360B)

5A 2B

5A 5C (360B)

5A 2C (360B)

5A 6C (360B)

5A 3C (360B)

2A 2B

2A 5C (360B)

2A 2C (360B)

2A 6C (360B)

2A 6C (360B)

2A 3C (360B)

5B 5C

5B 6C (360B)

5B 2C (360B)

5B 3C

5C 2C (360B)

5C 6C (360B)

2C 6C (360B)

3C (2) 3C

IB 720C

5A 2A

5A 5B

5B 2B

Carl Clover

Note: Doll makes 90% of this IB safe anyway.

IB 360A

5A 2A

5A 6A

5A 5B (360B)

5A 2B (360B)

5A 6B (360B)

5A 5C (360B)

5A 2C (360B)

5A 3C (360B)

5A 6C (360B)

2A 5A

2A 5B (360B)

2A 2B (360B)

2A 6B (360B)

2A 5C (360B)

2A 2C (360B)

2A 3C (360B)

5B 6B

5B 5C

IB 720C

5C 3C

5C 2C

For the record, 5C is the hardest move to IB in the game.

Litchi Faye Ling

Note: s: Staff , 4D is airborne cannot 360/720

IB 360A

5A s6A (360B)

5A s5B

5A s2B (360B)

5A s6B (360B)

5A s5C (360B)

5A s2C (360B)

5A s3C (360B)

5A s6C (360B)

2A s6A (360B)

2A s5B

2A s2B (360B)

2A s6B (360B)

2A s5C (360B)

2A s2C (360B)

2A s3C (360B)

2A s6C (360B)

s5B s6A (360B)

s5B s6B

s5B s5C

s5B s3C (360B)

s5B s6C (360B)

s2B s6A (360B)

s5C s3C (360B)

s2C s6C (360B)

5A 5B

2A 5B

5B 5C

5B 2C

5C 3C

IB 720C

5A 2A

2A 2A

s5B s2C

5C 2C

2C 3C

Arakune

Note: This won't help you with the matchup at all

IB 360A

2A 2A

2A 32C

2A 5B

5A 6A (360B)

5A cl.6B

2B 2B

6A 6B (360B)

6A 5D (360B)

6A 5C

5C 5D

IB 720C

5A 5A

Iron Tager

Note: Hate mirrors with a passion

IB 360A

5A 6A (360B)

5A 5B

5A 2B

5A 6B (360B)

5A 5C (360B)

5A 6C (360B)

5A 2C (360B)

5A 3C (360B)

5A 5D (360B)

5A 2D (360B)

5A 4D (360B) Sad, I know.

2A 2B

2A 5C (360B)

2A 2C (360B)

2A 3C (360B)

2A 5D (360B)

2A 2D (360B)

2A 4D

5B 6B (360B)

5B 2B

5B 5C (360B)

5B 2C (360B)

5B 5D (360B)

5B 2D (360B)

5B 4D

2B 2C

2B 3C

5C 6A (360B)

5C 5B (360B)

5C 6C (360B)

5C 5D (360B)

5C 2D (360B)

IB 720C

5A 5A

5A 2A

2A 2A

2A 5B

5C 3C

Bang Shishigami

Note: This section isn't short due to lack of gatlings...

IB 360A

5A 2B (360B)

5A 5C (360B)

5A 2C (360B)

5A 6A

2A 2A

2A 5B

2A 2B

2A 2C

5B 5C

5B 6A (360B)

IB 720C

5A 2A

5A 5B

5C 2C

Lambda-11

Note: Testing for all C moves done after 8 hits

IB 360A

5A 2A

5A 6A (360B)

5A 5B

5A 2B

5A 6B

5A 4B

5A 5C (360B)

5A 2C (360B)

5A 6C (360B)

5A 3C (360B)

2A 5B

2A 2B

2A 6B (360B)

2A 4B

2A 5C (360B)

2A 2C (360B)

2A 6C (360B)

2A 3C (360B)

5B 6B

5B 5C (360B)

5B 2C (360B)

5B 6C (360B)

2B 5C (360B)

2B 2C (360B)

2B 6C (360B)

2B 3C

6B 5C

6B 2C

6B 6C (360B)

5C 6C

2C 6C (360B)

IB 720C

5A 5A

5B 2B

5B 3C

Haku-Men

Haku-Men has no gatling normals outside of 6A 6B. And that's airtight.

Hazama

Note: 5C (1) is like the safest move ever.

IB 360A

5A 6A (360B)

5A 5B

5A 2B (360B)

5A 6B (360B)

5A 5C

5A 2C (360B)

5A 3C (360B)

2A 2A

2A 5B

2A 2B (360B)

2A 5C (360B)

2A 2C (360B)

2A 6C (360B)

5B 6B (360B)

5B 3C

2B 6B (360B)

2B 5C

2B 2C (360B)

2B 3C

IB 720C

5A 5A

5A 2A

5B 2C

5B 6C

5C (2) 3C

Tsubaki Yayoi

IB 360A

IB 720C

Mu-12

IB 360A

IB 720C

Makoto Nanaya

IB 360A

IB 720C

Valkenhayn R. Hellsing

IB 360A

IB 720C

To be finished...

[njmamm]

Wow, that's a lot of stuff.

[Ayumu Gardevoir]

Stupidity increasing!

[Coopa]

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. You have no idea how happy I am to see this.

[Heroic_Legacy]

No problem. Now just work on finding a non laggy tournament screen so you can show the world what this thread did for you Coopa.

[natearistata]

OCTOBER 16TH.

[iOryan]

i love you Heroic_Legacy, good stuff mate.

sidenote: get well soon.

[Mike Z]

Arakune

IB 360A

5A cl.6B

I certainly appreciate your work, this must have taken forever!

Ahem. Not to cast doubt on your Science or anything, but are you absolutely sure you were doing these as fast as possible? This one stuck out to me. You don't list 5A->5A...and 5A has the same startup as the followup 6B, 6f. So either they both should be possible, or neither.

Ara frame data:

5A has 6 startup, 3 active, 12 recovery, -5 on block. Last 2 active frames + 12 recovery = 14, -5 "static difference" = 9f of blockstun (agrees with Lv 0 attack).

Instant block -5f so 4f of blockstun.

Both 5A and 6B startup in 6f, meaning you get hit on 7f, 3f after your blockstun. Tager's 360A is invincible on frame 3, so if you do it at the first possible frame you should be able to 360A both 5A->5A and 5A->6B.

So um, your table might be accurate for 720s (invincible from first frame) but I would worry that some of the 360As aren't actually possible if your opponent is chaining as fast as he can be, which could get you counterhit and cost you round, the match, and the respect of the girl standing behind you, who instead of falling madly in love just decides to depart; thereby leaving your life a lonely emptiness filled only by the daily testing and verification of the more data for the aforementioned table.

(^.^)'

And yes, knowing that you can 360A any followup if you complete it exactly 4F after blocking his 5A certainly won't actually let you do it in the heat of battle.

[Maho]

For Litchi's 4D, it's not actually airborne as fast as it looks, if you IB any normal that came before it it's a free 360B/720.

[Sophisticat]

Very minor correction: Hakumen has no ground gatlings outside of 6a 6b. His j.a gatlings to j.b.

But considering you'll rarely, if ever, see that outside of a combo, the point is moot. Just wanted to point that out.

Aside from that, very impressive work.

[A.X.I.S.]

hey mike I just tried out that thing on ara.

I can't IB 360 5A>5A but I could IB 5A>cl6B

its weird maybe I should try 720.

I remember being able to MTW 5A>5A a few months back.

edit: if you try to IB 360 5A>5A you get CH'd...

[Seifuuku]

360a will only work if there is a 3 frame gap.. arakune 5a->5a is a 2 frame gap.

[Astaroth136]

This is great work!

It would be even more amazing if someone could put this in a video...

[Heroic_Legacy]

Just for your information, the way I did this testing was kinda impractically long, but I felt it'd give me the best results.

I used a TE-S for the 2nd player who was doing gatlings and I put the second button on rapid fire. So when I went on record (Say for Ragna's 5B 5C) I pressed 5B and held 5C down for a few frames. This way it'll give it like a huge number of inputs so it'll work. Obviously won't work for Jin, but I just trusted my own stuff. For Lambda 5C tests I just held the button down and pushed the direction as fast as I possibly could.

As for if I trust it, I made sure to re-record every input multiple times and tested it IB 360A again and again.

Frame data isn't trustworthy to me in this situation because of normal cancels. I completely ignored all frame data and did this by hand.

Frame data is good in it's own right, but too much dependancy on the numbers will leave you empty when you don't know what to look for. I just took theory, and experimented on it. It was a rather successful experiment too I might add.

[Heroic_Legacy]

Rest of the data should be up by Wednesday. Tuesday is my super anime power up day training montage for SB:R.

[Mike Z]

Frame data isn't trustworthy to me in this situation because of normal cancels.

I'm not sure I understand this sentence. I didn't bring up frame data because I trust it completely, I brought it up because this is exactly the type of situation it is useful for. (^.^) Figuring out blockstun and startup will take you as far as frame data can take you, which is "this move is possible here". Then your testing says "this move will actually hit". But it's not useless...

Remember you can hold the button down in BB to count as pressing it every single frame for 5F. That might help for things you can't turbo.

At any rate, I wasn't being negative, I was just pointing out that it didn't match. Quite possibly there's an error in the frame data - nobody really cares what the startup of Ara cl.6B is since it's not used on its own anyway.

[edit] See you at SB!

[Heroic_Legacy]

Know of anyone else of awesomeness going to SB? I could use some awe-inspiring news to make me work super hard now.

Tager v Tager v Tager v Tager top 4. Lets all take the money!

[A.X.I.S.]

I won't be able to come to SB, I got personal stuff this week...otherwise I'd come with troy.

also great thread, can't wait until you post that makoto stuff.

I want to know if I can IB j.whatever and 360 for free.

[Mike Z]

shtkn is going, and Hellmonkey is going...nobody else from SoCal I think, and dunno who from Norcal.

If there is even one Tager in top 4, I will give them a dollar. If there are 2+, $5 each.

[Augxst]

Nice work Legacy, looks like I need to start IBing more often.

[Ravage C]

This is a great list thanks Heroic, but can someone clear something up for me?

Ragna the Bloodedge

IB 360A

5A 5B

In this example if I IB 5A and 5B I can 360A, but every time I try to do it I get counter hit. I just wanted to know is this because I'm doing the 360A too slow or is it necessary to IB both 5A and 5B? Sorry for the stupid question that's probably obvious to everyone else.

For the record I practised this by going into training and recording Ragna doing 5A into 5B and I did use Inferno Divider after, but I thought the invincibility would allow him to avoid being grabbed. Then I just did 5A, 5B, 5C instead.

[Mike Z]

What that means is if you IB 5A and he does 5B after, you can 360A him before he touches you with the 5B.

[Ravage C]

What that means is if you IB 5A and he does 5B after, you can 360A him before he touches you with the 5B.

Thanks for clearing that up

[Skye]

You can normal block Arakune 6a and 360 him anyway you please before he 5ds, that includes 720. It's even on block and 5D has like 17f start up, the better Arakunes will mix it up though. Knowing this, I know I do.

[OrionXElite]

You can normal block Arakune 6a and 360 him anyway you please before he 5ds, that includes 720. It's even on block and 5D has like 17f start up, the better Arakunes will mix it up though. Knowing this, I know I do.

Really?? But since it gatlings, that shouldn't work should it?? 6A is a lvl3 which is 16f of blockstun and if it gatlings into 5D and its 17f startup, that would only leave a 1f gap right?? So that would mean only 720 would work unless it was an IB.

I think I'm reading the frame data right but correct me if I'm wrong please.