BBCS2 Loketest 4: Oct. 23 Discussion (NO COMPLAINING)

[BatousaiJ]

lol.

I'll just take your Tager players' word on this, since I'm not familiar with Tager like I am with other chars.

I understand he's a shitty ass character.

It's just like.. you want to win without grappling anyone, with a grappling character.

Psssssssssssssssshaaaaaaaaaaaaa~

I should all be able to win without ever hitting anyone damn it.

With the power of my... mind.

[DogsofWar]

Originally Posted by Ragna The Bloodedge

- 2B > 6A is not possible anymore.

- 2C has ~11 startup frames?

- Gauntlet Hades: causes slight ground bouncing.

- Gauntlet Hades follow-up: opponent flies higher, more untechable time, can follow with High Jump and air combo.

- Dead Spike: more untechable time when hits the opponent in the air, more hitstop (same as Unlimited Ragna?)

- Belial Edge: Level has been reduced, less untechable time.

- Carnage Scissor: more recovery time on the second hit, it lasts up until the opponent touches the floor.

Just to clear things up, The original poster just used "-"s to seperate the changes. They arent ALL nerfs.

[ZONG_one]

Grapplers need tools and damage output outside of command throws. Also Tager's command throws aren't that good.

Which is why he's a shitty char.

But aside from Potemkin, every grappler needs to throw you for their better damage stuff.

[Augxst]

Arc doesn't give a fuck about tager, THE END

[LeFartknocker]

you want to win without grappling anyone, with a grappling character.

It's not that really, it's just that without reliable damage outside of grabs it makes landing said grabs even MORE of a pain in the ass than it already is, because all the opponent will have to do is be wary of your throw mixups and laugh at you while they poke into 4-5k combos.

Because at the end of the day, despite his best efforts at being smart, Tager is still a 7 foot giant red "DANGER" sign with refrigerators on his arms that moves with all the swiftness of a dial-up internet connection...

[Henaki]

Which is why he's a shitty char.

But aside from Potemkin, every grappler needs to throw you for their better damage stuff.

no shit he should still do average damage with a bread and butter, however he should also be able to punish people for jumping out like spazzes instead of guessing for mediocre damage and if that doesnt work losing more of their healthbar than what they would have gained.

tager needs bread and butters that shut down jumping, off gadget, that lead back into it that do more than 3% of a lifebar.

[ZONG_one]

I agree with you on the anti jump needs.

Yomi AC can only get you so far with jumpers.

Hopefully everyone having air unblock 5B/5C will help him with this.

[FlyingVe]

To put it simply (for all the Non-Tager players and noobs), if the only thing you need to worry about when facing down Tager is his command grabs, then he's easy to deal with. His other options need to be scary enough that you have to worry about all of them including the grab.

Of course this is just the beginning of Tagers issues. The Anti-Jump stuff helps though.

[Nobus3r1]

Grapplers need tools and damage output outside of command throws. Also Tager's command throws aren't that good.

To really ram this point home Tager's non-throw (both normal and 360) combos (ignoring 2C and 6C starters) that don't involve magnetism, meter or counter-hit are only slightly better than Tsubaki damage-wise.

[Whiteboywilly]

I agree with you on the anti jump needs.

Yomi AC can only get you so far with jumpers.

Hopefully everyone having air unblock 5B/5C will help him with this.

What If they choose Tager's 5b as his au lol. I know it wouldn't happen. But if it did.

[felipebwk]

What If they choose Tager's 5b as his au lol. I know it wouldn't happen. But if it did.

is this a good answer for you?

Edit: something tells me that soon this thread will be closed by "higher forces" ...

[Synthesis]

I think Tager needs Satsuki's EX Handjob. He also needs Luvia's High/low command grabs, except they should give him attack grabs, where it acts like a grab if it hits. Like, give him a 623C overhead command attack grab. Would be interesting if it weren't telegraphed to hell and if the startup were decent.

[ZONG_one]

I think Tager needs Satsuki's EX Handjob. He also needs Luvia's High/low command grabs, except they should give him attack grabs, where it acts like a grab if it hits. Like, give him a 623C overhead command attack grab. Would be interesting if it weren't telegraphed to hell and if the startup were decent.

[Ice Cube]

overhead command attack grab

umm... what?

[psycofang2]

I think Tager needs Satsuki's EX Handjob. He also needs Luvia's High/low command grabs, except they should give him attack grabs, where it acts like a grab if it hits. Like, give him a 623C overhead command attack grab. Would be interesting if it weren't telegraphed to hell and if the startup were decent.

O_O??? please clarify in detail.

[ZONG_one]

O_O??? please clarify in detail.

Don't ask him to do that.

For the love of god, please don't ask him to do that.

[Zoogstin]

Tager either needs a double jump or Fly. Problem solved.

[Henaki]

hey just close this thread nothing important or useful will get posted here again anyway.

[Stafy]

If you mean Satsuki's bullshit 623C in CC with the really dumb range, then yeah v:

[Dusk Thanatos]

If you mean Satsuki's bullshit 623C in CC with the really dumb range, then yeah v:

Is it that damn command grab loop?

[kenja0]

To really ram this point home Tager's non-throw (both normal and 360) combos (ignoring 2C and 6C starters) that don't involve magnetism, meter or counter-hit are only slightly better than Tsubaki damage-wise.

Just like Tsubaki and Arakune, he has a gimmick around him in which he can't deal damage without. Arakune's was pretty solid while Tsubaki and Tager were underdeveloped. Tsubaki's just has underwhelming charge time; Tager has slow attacks and speed.

If they want a Tager to be effective, they should do something interesting like make him able to combo into 360s/720s but disable 'combos' from those attacks. Potempkin seemed pretty effective with that.

[Henaki]

Just like Tsubaki and Arakune, he has a gimmick around him in which he can't deal damage without. Arakune's was pretty solid while Tsubaki and Tager were underdeveloped. Tsubaki's just has underwhelming charge time; Tager has slow attacks and speed.

If they want a Tager to be effective, they should do something interesting like make him able to combo into 360s/720s but disable 'combos' from those attacks. Potempkin seemed pretty effective with that.

what the fuck.

[Synthesis]

Satsuki's EX Handjob was an aerial command grab that was air unblockable, had a huge hit box, and the startup was extremely fast. The attack itself used 1/3rd of her meter, but it gave her really stupid oki and damage for her loop.

As for an attack command grab think of it like this. Say the attack is an overhead. But, consider it is a throw. If they block the overhead, the throw doesn't go through, and so forth. If they gave him High-low throw mixup as well as his other mixup it would strengthen his pressure, because the threat of getting thrown during blockstun is now present. The attack shouldn't be overly telegraphed and it shouldn't be too slow (Imagine Mu's 6B, but slightly faster), which leads to decent damage upon hit, but is, say, +1 on block so he can't get poked and the threat of Overhead command throw or Low command throw > 360 is clearly present etc... It would be more fun and would make him a more interesting character to play. Might not help him much, but it's not like Arcsys is worried about balancing him.

[kenja0]

what the fuck.

Too much of an idea?

I think it would make that Tsubaki-esque damage go away.

Random B/C hit into 360. It sounds delicious.

[psycofang2]

Don't ask him to do that.

For the love of god, please don't ask him to do that.

mah bad yo...